The Doorman's Fallacy in Action

(rozumem.xyz)

31 points | by rozumem 1 hour ago

15 comments

  • cactacea 24 minutes ago
    > But when 6 people simultaneously tried to pay their share of the bill, chaos ensued.

    I'm guessing the author has never worked as a server themselves... Is there any part of the world you can have a six top with individual checks when you didn't tell them up front to split the bill? As an American this just seems obvious to me but maybe the expectation is different in Dubai.

    • Jtsummers 17 minutes ago
      > Is there any part of the world you can have a six top with individual checks when you didn't tell them up front to split the bill?

      Most restaurant point of sales systems in the US handle that pretty well. They put down what seat an item was ordered from, and it covers everything except shared items like appetizers. That's been pretty common for a couple decades, and not just at chains, also at local places (if they had a POS system and weren't doing it with paper still, but good servers know how to notate that well, too).

    • satvikpendem 4 minutes ago
      It's because we are Americans yes. When I was in Europe the server would give us the handheld payment device and we select which items we ordered and then they'd charge us. The author seems to not have this, the waiter should've gone through themselves. It was simply the wrong technology, not that technology was at fault.
    • cobbzilla 20 minutes ago
      I’ve seen rare places where the server has a handheld and every single item is always individually charged. Then they can keep things separate or combine it however you want.

      But, I’ve seen that maybe twice in my entire life. Once might have been in Vegas. Everywhere else is as you say; it’s just not a reasonable post-meal request.

      • cactacea 16 minutes ago
        Yeah there's a Pho place in Seattle I'd go to lunch at (iykyk) where we'd regularly have 20 people at a table and pay individually. But they didn't even use the check for that, they'd just ask what you had and ring that in as they went around the table with the handheld. Literally the only place I've ever seen that even offered to split a check at a table with more than 3-4 people.
    • chunky1994 12 minutes ago
      Yes, this is quite standard outside the US. In Canada, Mexico, Europe, Asia etc. this is more the standard practice than the opposite.
    • PufPufPuf 2 minutes ago
      Europe. You just walk to the register and point out the items you want to pay for. I've never seen a place where paying for a group of 6 separately would be a problem, it's the default and expected.
  • TheGRS 5 minutes ago
    If anything the prompt from your phone that your meter is expiring is a huge plus against forgetting about it and getting dinged with an outrageous parking ticket. I'd much rather go through the brief stress of that reminder than a ticket any day. A parking ticket will put me in a sour mood for the rest of the day easily.
  • ambicapter 0 minutes ago
    Soul-less money-oriented behavior in Dubai? Color me shocked.
  • rwmj 1 hour ago
    What the article misses is that money is saved for the company by moving the work to the customer / end user.

    It's the same thing with sending parcels, where I must now sit on my computer at home filling in a complicated online form and printing out my own labels. This takes me like 30 minutes, but saves time and money for the Post Office (not for me!)

    There's no downside for the company here, especially when they are monopolies so we have no choice.

    • devindotcom 49 minutes ago
      Don't forget self check out at the grocery store. I don't mind personally (I find ways to make it worth my while..) but it's a version of the same thing. Shifting labor under the guise of convenience. Like all the other versions of this, the savings are absorbed by the company, not passed on to the consumer. It's rare that the opposite happens.
      • ralferoo 36 minutes ago
        My supermarket has the handheld scanners and they are a game changer. They fit handily into the trolley if you want and you just scan stuff as you go. If you want 8 of something, you can just tap the item and increase the quantity, none of the having to scan each one and add it carefully to the bagging area, etc... And best of all, at the end you just scan a self checkout screen (and they have special ones as well with no bagging area and no queue, but you can use the normal ones if the queue is shorter), so you scan the screen, click pay, click pay by card and hold your card on the machine. Done. Takes about 15 seconds all in, and the queues on those machines are basically non-existant as a result.

        Best of all is that you put your stuff directly into your bags as you're shopping so there's no frantic packing stage.

        Oh, and maybe Decathlon deserve a special mention here for their self-service checkouts. Every item has an RFID price tag usually sown into the care labels of their own-brand products. They don't have a self-scan machine, handheld or otherwise, you just drop everything you picked up into the box, it scans all the RFID tags and makes sure the weight is correct, and it's all done.

        • ValentineC 12 minutes ago
          > Oh, and maybe Decathlon deserve a special mention here for their self-service checkouts. Every item has an RFID price tag usually sown into the care labels of their own-brand products. They don't have a self-scan machine, handheld or otherwise, you just drop everything you picked up into the box, it scans all the RFID tags and makes sure the weight is correct, and it's all done.

          Uniqlo too. I guess it helps that they own their entire manufacturing and retail process.

      • satvikpendem 3 minutes ago
        I love self checkout, let me scan what I want, not stand in a line with people who seemingly don't know what they're doing or don't have cash or their credit card declines etc.
      • orangecat 27 minutes ago
        Self checkout is absolutely more convenient if you're not buying a lot.

        (I find ways to make it worth my while..)

        If that means what it sounds like, congratulations on accelerating the descent to a low-trust society.

        • saulpw 18 minutes ago
          Blaming this individual for 'accelerating the descent' is like blaming a hobo for catching a ride on a runaway train going downhill. The ensuing trainwreck is already inevitable, at least you can get part of a ride out of it!
      • mhb 20 minutes ago
        > the savings are absorbed by the company, not passed on to the consumer

        How do you come to this conclusion without a deep dive into a supermarket's finances?

      • gib444 8 minutes ago
        [delayed]
    • darth_avocado 41 minutes ago
      > that money is saved for the company by moving the work to the customer / end user.

      And somehow things are more expensive than ever. Self checkouts, order at the counter, bussing your own table, assembling your own furniture, filling out your or your pet’s medical history at a hospital, shipping labels (you mentioned this) and so much more. It’s a form of free labor that somehow society is okay with.

      • mhb 16 minutes ago
        > It’s a form of free labor that somehow society is okay with.

        It's very popular to say this in some places, but wouldn't you expect that the money that businesses are saving when they do this is passed along to the customer in lower prices? Since they're competing with other businesses?

    • epolanski 16 minutes ago
      I never make the mistake to go to places with qr codes twice in my life.

      I can live with giant tablets in fast foods, but there's no chance I go to qr code restaurants ever.

      As the article points out, it's super inconvenient and absolutely breaks the mood for the night and cheapens and ruins the experience.

      Even worse one of my favourite steak houses has removed phone booking and implemented a super slow and inconvenient form.

      Another place that will never get my money again.

    • jen20 47 minutes ago
      I don’t know which country you’re in (and don’t disagree with you) but even if the estimate of 30 minutes to shipping labels were accurate, that would still be a net win where I am in Texas - the line at the post office is regularly longer than that.
      • xboxnolifes 31 minutes ago
        Because staffing can/has be/been reduced since they made it possible for people to print their own labels. They aren't interested in making the queues faster.
        • mhb 15 minutes ago
          Uh, the queues at the post office have never exactly been fast.
  • ivan888 6 minutes ago
    Going to "modernized" restaurants is just a drag. I don't want to touch your tablet or scan your code. I much prefer the restaurants which only accept cash
  • gwbas1c 53 minutes ago
    When a restaurant pushes me to a QR code I now outright say that I find them "insulting."

    Granted, where I live e-menus generally haven't taken off in sit-down restaurants, so it's very easy to push back on nonsense like this.

    • joezydeco 30 minutes ago
      I enjoy the codes. It skips that whole dance we do in the US of waiting for the server to return - twice! - to pick up payment and then drop off the card and receipts. I can sit there as long as I want, pay once, then walk out. And the card has never left my hand.

      What's more nonsense is the author of the article trying to split a check 6 ways and stressing over the fact two people shared a dessert. Sack up, split it roughly or better yet don't split it at all. Good friends return the favor sooner or later. Unless you're a cheapskate.

  • devindotcom 1 hour ago
    My favorite version of this is robotic and drone-based package delivery. In many ways it could be useful and add efficiency to a congested system. But then you find out just what it is that delivery people actually do, the variety of security systems, steps and walkways, exceptions to rules, and so on and realize that what drones and robots automate is not really "the job" at all.

    The last mile, in logistics, hospitality, retail or elsewhere is not just a mile, it's an interdependent series of several distances each with its own rules and restrictions. Tech-based solutions tend to solve an idealized, abstracted version of these and end up being only a very limited solution if they solve anything at all.

    • rootusrootus 1 hour ago
      These folks have patted themselves on the back for devising a solution to the last mile without then realizing that the hardest part of all was the last 20 feet.

      They'll just ignore that problem, drop the package on my front lawn and then snap a picture for proof of delivery from 50 feet up before flying away. To be fair, at least one of the Chinese international carriers does that every time already -- pull into my driveway, open the window, chuck the package onto the lawn, and then drive away. At least Amazon still brings it to the front porch and 90% of the time even puts it in a spot where the rain does not reach.

  • thewillowcat 27 minutes ago
    I would love to pay and manage parking from my phone if the apps actually worked intuitively, but they rarely do. It was easier when all I had to do was have a roll of quarters in my car.
  • quantified 1 hour ago
    We underestimate how valuable and useful the "technology" of a human really is.
  • senordevnyc 1 hour ago
    I get the QR code menu thing, that’s a solid example imo (though there ARE benefits to QR code menus), but the people hassling with their phones to extend their parking, or paying for their portion of the meal via QR code doesn’t sound at all like the doorman fallacy, just a shitty UI.

    Without tech, these people would not have been notified that their parking would expire in the first place, and would have all had to leave the restaurant to extend their parking. Is that really better?

    And splitting the bill among six people is an age old hassle that definitely has gotten better with tech at places who have a good UI for handling it.

    • fmobus 57 minutes ago
      A popular solution in my country, at least for less formal restaurants and bars (and even nightclubs) is for each customer to have their own tab, which gets marked by waiters and stays with the customer. In those places, it's also the norm that you pay your tab at the cashier prior to leaving, and waiters don't have to handle with money.
    • AndrewDucker 1 hour ago
      Agreed.

      Generally, with QR menus I'm used to paying when we order. No need for secondary processes or worrying about something not being paid for.

  • raldi 37 minutes ago
    To me this sounds more like the Icarus Fallacy: "The lesson of isn't don't fly close to the sun, it's make better fucking wings."
  • simianwords 42 minutes ago
    People have now clung on to doorman's fallacy as a way to justify keeping outdated jobs around.

    There should be a new fallacy named for this phenomenon otherwise we would have people justifying having travel agents jobs and translator jobs being protected.

    • 3-cheese-sundae 7 minutes ago
      I am curious to hear why you believe those roles don't provide any value.
    • epolanski 2 minutes ago
      I absolutely love waiters in any decent restaurant.

      I hate menus, you don't know anything about the restaurant from them.

      But ask they waiter what's good or what's the restaurant specialty or just what was delivered in the day, and it's a completely different experience.

  • redsocksfan45 10 minutes ago
    [dead]
  • jcoletti 57 minutes ago
    I agree, but multiple people can scan a QR code simultaneously.
    • mhb 11 minutes ago
      Or the place could go to the extraordinary expense of putting multiple cards on the table with the codes.
    • mcphage 47 minutes ago
      > multiple people can scan a QR code simultaneously

      If it's large enough, and posted in a place where people sitting around a table can all see it clearly.

      • jcoletti 40 minutes ago
        I'm just always surprised when people place their entire phone over the code, thinking it needs to fill the screen, when they scan pretty well from a couple feet away.
  • MelonUsk 54 minutes ago
    You’re the demo version of the ultimate tech:

    You create worlds in your sleep, anything magically appears in front of you - it’s called imagination

    The only limit is:

    We cannot recall the whole NYC and our imagination is a single-player experience

    You cannot invite your buddy for a tea party in your mind

    The ultimate tech is the ethical sim multiverse (think BCI Airpods + growing multiversal Web) to have multiversal memories, imagination and dreams

    And you are a walking demo version of it